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See also: Pacifica–Polaris Dispute

The following conversation takes place between Electron Sponge of the New Polar Order and Ardus of the Viridian Entente as provided by Dilber. This discussion occurred during the termination period of the VE-NpO MADP, the Emerald-Sapphire Concord, and appears in its censored form as the logs were posted on the Cyber Nations forums.

03[16:36] * electron_sponge (electron_s@new.polar.order) has joined #carolinablues
03[16:36] * SoonerNation sets mode: +v electron_sponge
[16:36] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Alright, I've got a headache and things to do so let's get down to business.
[16:37] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I've been informed that Chickenzilla, a New Polar Order member, recently made a post on the NpO boards containing his VE forum user information.
[16:37] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Why hasn't anybody in Polaris informed VE about this?
[16:38] <+electron_sponge> Because I personally don't care that he did it.
[16:38] <+electron_sponge> It's his account
[16:38] <+electron_sponge> it's not like he was giving them access to anything that they wouldn't already have access to as a diplomat
[16:39] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Actually, former members have a bit more access than diplomats.
[16:39] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Not much more, but more nonetheless.
[16:40] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I'm not a fan of another alliance flooding through a single account on our forums.
[16:40] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I'd like the thread to be removed.
[16:40] <+electron_sponge> No.
06[16:40] * ~Ardus[VE-Lord] goes to get his Motrin
[16:41] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> And why not?
[16:41] <+electron_sponge> You seriously think after the stunt you pulled I am going to do anything for you?
[16:42] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> You don't think it's wrong that a slew of Polaris members are attempting to pose as somebody on the VE forums?
[16:42] <+electron_sponge> Ardus, let's get a few things straight
[16:43] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Yes, lets.
[16:43] <+electron_sponge> #1 Your cancelling that treaty was some childish !@#$%^&* and our members want you guys dead
[16:43] <+electron_sponge> #2
[16:44] <+electron_sponge> Pulling me into a chat with a bunch of uninvolved individuals is nothing short of grandstanding and it is going to get you the exact opposite of any result you desire
[16:44] <+electron_sponge> #3 If you ever do this to me again you will be making an enemy
[16:45] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Actually, it's due in large part to these people that I know much of anything about the thread.
[16:45] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> So no, they aren't "uninvolved", as you seem to put it.
[16:45] <+electron_sponge> They are entirely uninvolved.
[16:45] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> As mutual friends and allies, they have a great interest in how this meeting goes.
[16:46] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I haven't even gotten to subject dos.
01[16:46] <%Heft> Productive, preferably
[16:47] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> While checking Chickenzilla's account we found that he shared IPs with numerous other Viridians, most of which were former, but one of which was, for all intents and purpsoes, current.
[16:47] <+electron_sponge> so you're going to accuse us of espionage now I take it
[16:47] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> No, actually.
[16:48] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I'm going to ask you to eject CZ so we can punish him for espionage.
[16:48] <+electron_sponge> no
[16:48] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> That'll turn out well.
[16:48] <+electron_sponge> you need to produce a little more evidence than that
[16:48] <+electron_sponge> just your word isn't good enough for me
[16:48] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Sooner, please provide Mr. Sponge the IPs and nations currently associated with CZ.
[16:48] <@SoonerNation> sure thing
[16:49] <+electron_sponge> also evidence that those nations are actually controlled by Chickenzilla
[16:49] <+electron_sponge> and that he is perfoming espionage
[16:50] <+electron_sponge> and who he is performing espionage for
[16:50] <@SoonerNation> *IP EDITED* : c-*EDITED*.hsd1.il.comcast.net
[16:50] <@SoonerNation> Post IP Addresses
[16:50] <@SoonerNation> * Chickenzilla *EDITED*[Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
[16:50] <@SoonerNation> * Nirvana2529 *EDITED*[Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
[16:50] <@SoonerNation> * TheLyingDead *EDITED*[Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
[16:50] <@SoonerNation> Registration IP Addresses
[16:50] <@SoonerNation> * Chickenzilla *EDITED*[Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
[16:50] <@SoonerNation> * TheLyingDead *EDITED*[Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
[16:51] <@SoonerNation> I have more logs, hold on.
[16:51] <@SoonerNation> # *EDITED[Find More Users with this IP Address]
[16:51] <@SoonerNation> # *EDITED* [Find More Users with this IP Address]
[16:51] <@SoonerNation> * Nirvana2529 *EDITED*[Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
[16:51] <@SoonerNation> * TheLyingDead *EDITED*[Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
[16:51] <@SoonerNation> # *EDITED* [Find More Users with this IP Address]
[16:51] <@SoonerNation> # *EDITED*[Find More Users with this IP Address]
[16:51] <@SoonerNation> # *EDITED*[Find More Users with this IP Address]
[16:52] <@SoonerNation> * SpyCap *EDITED*[Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
[16:52] <@SoonerNation> # *EDITED*[Find More Users with this IP Address]
[16:52] <@SoonerNation> # Isair *EDITED* [Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
[16:52] <@SoonerNation> # Nirvana2529 *EDITED*[Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
03[16:52] * aznjons|away is now known as aznjons
[16:53] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> None of these members have more than a handful of posts, suggesting a number of possibilities.
[16:53] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> They could be just dull people.
[16:53] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Might not care about CN.
[16:53] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Or, they could simply be the multis of Chickenzilla.
[16:53] <@SoonerNation> all left around the same time.
[16:54] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> The shared IPs, the exact matches, point towards the last of those options.
[16:54] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> What make the situation more convincing is Chickenzilla's prior history of being entangled in espionage investigations.
[16:55] <+electron_sponge> what espionage investigations?\
[16:55] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I personally went to bat for him after the disbandment of Atlantis when there was some belief that he was invovled in espionage against Pacifica.
[16:55] <+electron_sponge> and what were the results of those investigations?
[16:55] <+electron_sponge> and by the way we have a mod team
[16:55] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Hm?
[16:55] <+electron_sponge> if someone is multiing they should be reported
[16:56] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> We intend to.
[16:56] <+electron_sponge> good then do it
[16:56] <+electron_sponge> then his nation is deleted and the whole thing is settled
[16:56] <+electron_sponge> if indeed they are his nations
[16:56] <+electron_sponge> I really don't see where I fit in with that whole thing
[16:56] <+electron_sponge> other than that you have an axe to grind
[16:57] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> In the mean time it'd be nice if Polaris didn't explicitly refuse to continue harboring somebody that we believe has been maintaining improper access to our forums.
[16:57] <+electron_sponge> It'd be nice if you didn't come off like a !@#$@#$ tool every time you talk to me too
[16:58] <+electron_sponge> seriously
[16:58] <+electron_sponge> what makes you think I would do a thing for you?
[16:59] <+electron_sponge> And since we're on the subject of espionage
[16:59] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I'd think the desire to be a decent leader would push you to do what you know is right, rather than stonewall people because they didn't like it when you totally disrespected and diregarded them.
[16:59] <+electron_sponge> what the $%&@ do you think you're doing talking about anything from our private forum?
[16:59] <+electron_sponge> we're not just talking a general discussion area for former members now
[16:59] <+electron_sponge> we're talking active espionage
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> You have admin by chance?
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Cornelius> of VE forums?
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> yes.
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Cornelius> I do
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> You may wish to ban Chikenzilla.
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> He has given all of NpO access to his account.
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> This was posted on their forums by him:
[17:00] <+electron_sponge> what other information from our private forums have you been given
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> ol, go to
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> http://forums.viridianentente.com/showthread.php?t=4712
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> Use my account
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> Chickenzilla
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> password Polaris
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> Read
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> ----
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Cornelius> I'll change his mask, and post these logs so the rest of Parliament can see them
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Cornelius> thank you
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> and they are using it to bash you guys.
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> Post that this didn't come from me please.
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Cornelius> alright
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Anon> Thank you.
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Cornelius> I'll change your nick
[17:00] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> <Cornelius> you're welcome
[17:00] <+electron_sponge> Unless you identify the source of that I suggest you get your alliance to peace mode.
[17:01] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> These logs were confirmed by Moo.
[17:01] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> That the post existed, I mean.
[17:01] <+electron_sponge> I don't care who they were confirmed by
[17:01] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> That and the password checks out.
[17:01] <+electron_sponge> Source
[17:01] <+electron_sponge> now
[17:01] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I can gladly state that I honestly don't know the source.
[17:02] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Cornelius and I have yet to be on at the same time since he recieved the logs.
[17:02] <+electron_sponge> you have until update to get me the name
[17:02] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Or you'll do what?
[17:02] <+electron_sponge> because this isn't some hair splitting BS
[17:02] <+electron_sponge> this is real-deal espionage
[17:02] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> As is your harboring of Chickenzilla.
[17:02] <+electron_sponge> oh the $%&@ it is
[17:03] <+electron_sponge> tick tick tick Ardus
[17:03] <+electron_sponge> you might want to get talking to whoever it is you talk to
[17:03] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I'd say you've lost your mind if you think you can touch Viridia.
01[17:03] <%Heft> Nice redirection
01[17:03] <%Heft> So back on topic?
[17:04] <+electron_sponge> we are on topic
[17:04] <+electron_sponge> Ardus was accusing me of espionage
01[17:04] <%Heft> We're waving our penises around
[17:04] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I asked you to remove somebody that I am confident is guilty of espionage.
[17:04] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I came in here giving you the benefit of the doubt on the subject.
[17:04] <+electron_sponge> I disagree with your assessment of what is espionage
[17:05] <+electron_sponge> evidently
[17:05] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Evidently.
[17:05] <+electron_sponge> spying on you being a dick to someone in an area frequented by non-VE members on your forum?
[17:05] <+electron_sponge> lol
[17:05] <+electron_sponge> that's espionage?
[17:06] <+electron_sponge> you're out of your mind
[17:06] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Spying is spying.
[17:06] <+electron_sponge> and that WASN'T spying
[17:07] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> It's impersonating an individual on our forums.
[17:07] <+electron_sponge> then ban him ffs
[17:08] <+electron_sponge> you want to attack him over impersonation
[17:08] <+electron_sponge> do you see where we have a little problem Ardus
[17:08] <+electron_sponge> you pitched a huge fit when I attacked someone for impersonation
[17:09] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I want to attack Chickenzilla over his shared IPs with other current and former Viridians.
01[17:09] <%Heft> Well, I suppose they could go and just attack him...
[17:09] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I want you to do more than look the other way when your members impersonate somebody on my forums.
07[17:09] <+electron_sponge> heh, that would end well Heft
01[17:10] <%Heft> o/ diplomacy
[17:10] <+electron_sponge> well that's just fine Ardus, I'll tell him not to do it again
[17:11] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Will Chickenzilla be removed from Polaris?
[17:11] <+electron_sponge> nope
[17:11] <+electron_sponge> you have provided no evidence of espionage
[17:12] <+electron_sponge> you show me a paste of some IP addresses and not much else
[17:12] <+electron_sponge> there is no evidence that any espionage has taken place
[17:12] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> He has illegitimate access.
[17:12] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> That alone is more than enough.
[17:12] <+electron_sponge> that is not entirely clear to me
02[17:12] * @SoonerNation (soonernati@coldfront-*edited*) Quit (Connection reset by peer )
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03[17:12] * ChanServ sets mode: +o SoonerNation
[17:13] <+electron_sponge> look if you were to come to me and say, Chickenzilla is spying on us for X alliance and here's how we know: xxxx
[17:13] <+electron_sponge> I'd be fine
[17:13] <+electron_sponge> but this just doesn't wash
[17:14] <+electron_sponge> unless you are accusing the New Polar Order of spying, in which case you damn well better do more than just paste a few IP's in a chat window to prove it.
[17:15] <+electron_sponge> It's not that I love Chickenzilla or trust him implicitly
[17:15] <+electron_sponge> I'd do this for any of my members
[17:16] <+electron_sponge> I need to see more than just some circumstantial IP stuff
[17:16] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I already told you I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but I won't lie, your refusal to eject an individual who has 1. provided illegiimate access to your members, 2. maintained illegitimate access on the VE forums, and 3. has a running record of being involved in shady dealings in the past... it's all certainly disturbing.
[17:16] <+electron_sponge> What shady dealings?
[17:17] <+electron_sponge> And how many of my members have logged on through his credentials?
[17:17] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I already noted the NPO's investigation into Chickenzilla around the fall of Atlantis.
[17:17] <+electron_sponge> You said he may have been spying on NPO
[17:17] <+electron_sponge> NPO has raised no objection to his presence in my alliance
[17:17] <+electron_sponge> And trust me they would if they had an objection
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[17:20] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Sponge, I've made my request. If you refuse to acquiesce, then so be it. But when I come across something that looks like spying, smells like spying, and tastes like spying, I'm going to assume that somebody is spying.
[17:20] <+electron_sponge> Except that it isn't spying
[17:20] <+electron_sponge> But getting information from one of our private forums is
[17:21] <+electron_sponge> So how about we talk about your source
[17:21] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I've already given you all the information I have, like good people do.
[17:21] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> If I had more, I'd give it to.
[17:21] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> too*
[17:21] <+electron_sponge> you have more information
[17:21] <+electron_sponge> you are lying to me
[17:21] <+electron_sponge> that's not a good thing
[17:21] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Nope.
[17:21] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I don't lie.
[17:21] <+electron_sponge> lol
[17:21] <+electron_sponge> k
[17:22] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I may do some crazy !@#$, but I can proudly say I don't lie.
[17:22] <+electron_sponge> then I suggest you find that information
[17:22] <+electron_sponge> get it from whoever you got that log from
[17:22] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> I suggest that you remove Chickenzilla from your alliance.
[17:23] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> See, we can run around in circles like this for a while.
[17:23] <+electron_sponge> I suggest you go $%&@ yourself
01[17:23] <%Heft> So much for productive
[17:23] <+electron_sponge> you aren't going to order me around
[17:23] <~Ardus[VE-Lord]> Goodbye, Sponge.
03[17:23] * Ardus[VE-Lord] sets mode: +b *!*@new.polar.order